Feature Request: Better indicator of Mirrored items

Jay

I agree that it’s not super intuitive, but we are fairly constrained with space on the left side of items as there can be a collapser and a prefix. And as you said since every item can have a different prefix I haven’t figured out a way to to it consistently. Can you (or someone) think of a good way to indicate mirrors consistently? My ideas so far:

An icon where the collapser is, and the collapser could draw on top of it. But what icon?
A background color or border
A bar on the left (like priority and complete), but what color? And what if it’s also a priority or complete?
Some consistent indicator over prefixes, but I think this is a bad option because of the different aligning prefixes to text settings.

SamMarrocco

I’ll give some thought to the potential options for existing icon modification. Thats seem like the most intuitive; something that is added to the existing icons that add additional meaning to their current meaning.

Changing to background colors or border would interfere with other text-color/background color modifications in the future (hopefully).
A bar wouldn’t be intuitive enough.

Jorge

How about an icon in the prefix place not on the collapser place. The collapser is used too much and a stabilizing that will cause too much pain.
Maybe a SMALL arrow pointing down and to the right for the main original mirror and an arrow pointing up and to the left for all the child mirrors

SamMarrocco

I’ve been playing with the idea of a ‘modified icon’ as mentioned with some type of arrow for links/mirrors. I like Jorge’s idea of the different arrows indicating a link source vs a link destination. However…..

As I played with this, it became more evident that a physical modification of the existing icons would be messy for some of the following reasons:

-Since different item types can be mirrors/links, i.e. Tasks, Bullets, Numbered Lists, Projects, each would require such a similiar modification. They wouldn’t all look as visually attractive and may not be as recognizable after the modification.
-Color should not be used to indicate a link/mirror. It is too useful as a user mod (text colors, backgrounds, highlights) to be used for anything else.
-The best location would seem to be immediately after the bullet/numbered list/project/task existing icon, either as a new narrow column, or as the first character of an item. To wit….

[Bullet Icon] [Link/Mirror Icon} Mow the lawn.

As for suggestions for the Link/Mirror Icon, how about a small arrow pointing to the right (towards the text of the item,
For the link source, the ‘base’ of the arrow would be brighter than the arrowhead.
For the link destination, the ‘base’ of the arrow would be the default color, and the arrowhead would be the brighter color.
More consistent with a single icon able to indicate two ‘parts’ of the same thing (a link).

As for the Mirror, how about two tall, think grey vertical lines. separated by a couple pixels (as to not be confused by two lower case “L” characters.

The default for these new icons should match the color of the existing bullet points, but perhaps they could have their two-color parts in the settings/colors section for customizing by the users in the future.

I’m a little mixed in the addition of this link/mirror column in that it would make items with links and/or mirrors ’idented" further to the right, making them no longer aligned with other items. So discussion of “should this be a permanent color left blank if there is no mirror/link” should take place. Perhaps locating this column all the way to the left, even left of the collapser column would be better?

Thoughts?

andrew

If it’s going to be clickable, it shouldn’t be overlaid with another clickable element. This is already a problem in mobile, where the mirror number appears to hide the collapser (although tapping blank space immediately next to the mirror number can actually collapse).

I think if it is clickable, it should be inline at the end of the item text. Or right or left justified but not overlaid on any other element, including in the mobile app.

SamMarrocco

andrew
The only reason I would think it might need to be clickable is for context menus. For example, if right-clicking on the new link/mirror icon presents a menu of methods such as "UnLink, Un-Mirror & make copy, Un-Mirror, Delete this Mirror etc.

Jerud

The left margin already has way too much stuff going on. We really don’t need anything else there.

I don’t see how any of these suggestions are better than the current “tally box”. The only real objection above is that it can get clipped – okay, fix the clipping. The box is no more arbitrary in shape/function/location than any of the other icons, except maybe the “two lines” which do imply a mirror, but none of them create a space to show the number of mirror-items which is valuable to me.

I also like how the current tally box works for both mirrors and links, and the subtle but effective way you can identify the “original” link-to item because it’s always the first one in the list when you click the box. For mirrors though, identifying the “original” (suggested above) is nonsensical b/c mirrors are meant to all be identical and equal.

If anything, perhaps Jay would consider adding a Theme control for mirrored items so those who really want them to look different can futz with colors, backgrounds, fonts, etc. There’s 605 things in my personal list I’d rather see fixed before this gets messed with.

SamMarrocco

Jerud

The problem I have with the tally box is that it can be clipped with a narrowing of the form currently, and on the iOS version it is on the right with the collapse/uncollapse icon (which, BTW, I think should move to the left for consistency).
Close together pressable icons is definitely a problem as your point mentions about “way too much stuff going on”. I think this could be solved, especially on iOS/smaller screen devices, by adjustable font sizes and line spacing. I have a feature suggestion already submitted for this elsewhere.

Perhaps in keeping with Jerud’s need to see the tally box total, the icon for mirrors can encompass a number for that tally overlaid on the icon itself, killing two birds with one stone?

I would definitely vote against using a theme, or other color/font/underline option of the item itself to identify links and/or mirrors. I believe the item text itself should be a constant by default at creation unless otherwise modified by the user for identification, i.e. text color and background, which for full disclosure, I am strongly requesting elsewhere as a future feature. If item text color is used for identifying function, it would forever be useless as an organizational tool for the user. My thinking is that columns/icons are for identifying function or utility, and text is left entirely to the user for organization. Not everyone will agree, of course.

Workflowy currently colors it’s links blue, as in a web page, but this directly conflicts with when you color text blue to indicate something else, leaving you wondering which are links and which are not.

Jerud

SamMarrocco The problem I have with the tally box is that it can be clipped with a narrowing of the form currently,

Sounds to me like the clipping is what needs to be fixed, not the tally box.
I’m on Windows Desktop and my minimum-width Panes do NOT clip the tally box. Which platform do you see this bug on?

SamMarrocco on the iOS version it is on the right with the collapse/uncollapse icon (which, BTW, I think should move to the left for consistency)

Yes, the tally box overlaps the ‘expander’ caret on iOS which is terrible.
I get why the expander is on the right in mobile but I really think it doesn’t “work” there. It’d be better if mobile looked nearly identical to the desktop/browser apps.

SamMarrocco Perhaps in keeping with Jerud’s need to see the tally box total, the icon for mirrors can encompass a number for that tally overlaid on the icon itself, killing two birds with one stone?

It’s not a need; I could live without it just fine. But I do think it’s nice and I think others agree.
Yes you could superimpose the number on some other icon…but at this point we’re just fussing about the shape of the icon, which puts it in nearly last-place on my personal list of improvement requests.

SamMarrocco I would definitely vote against using a theme, or other color/font/underline option of the item itself to identify links and/or mirrors.

Agreed. Relying on color alone is bad UI design for colorblind users, at minimum.
I’m not saying to rely on a theme, I’m saying to default to identical text but still provide a theme control so (pro) users can style mirrors as they like. Other folks do want colored mirrors and they could get that if they had a CSS control.
There is currently a control for Link items, but not for mirrors. I dislike the default for Link items that puts them [[inside brackets]] and colors them blue like a hyperlink. I chose to style mine without brackets, keep default text color, and add underlining.

This works very well for me but I’m sure others would hate it – that’s the beauty of themes.

SamMarrocco but this directly conflicts with when you color text blue to indicate something else,

I don’t follow this. It sounds like you’re changing the color of your item-text on the fly, the way you might apply Bold or Italic formatting to a selection. But Legend doesn’t allow for that.

SamMarrocco

Jerud

I don’t follow this. It sounds like you’re changing the color of your item-text on the fly, the way you might apply Bold or Italic formatting to a selection. But Legend doesn’t allow for that.

You are correct, Legend doesn’t currently allow for that. I’m speaking with the hope that color/formatted text & text background will be in an upcoming feature, so item text should be left alone for that possibility in the future. Hoping, hoping, hoping….

Jerud

SamMarrocco Hoping, hoping, hoping….

Rather than hoping, make a feature request, get some votes for it.

SamMarrocco

Jerud
I did, as of a few days ago. Hope springs eternal, but bugs and feature requests can be documented 😉

Jorge

So how about this?

Definitely agree that in mobile the expand/Collapser should be moved to the left for consistency in experience with the bigger screens.
The tally box is extremely useful and should not go away. How about just putting the arrows in the tally box (above and below the tally number ) small not too big and fix whatever clipping problems the tally box might have in any platform.

SamMarrocco

I like the idea of keeping the indicator of the number of links/mirrors (the tally), but think it could be combined with the proposed icon, and definitely should be on the left for the aforementioned reasons of being clipped on the right. Another reason to not have it on the right–A short item (a couple word) can have a lot of space between the end of the item and the tally on the far right, making it visually impossible to visually connect the short item with the tally on the right. Another reason that the tally, icon, etc, should be somewhere at the start of the item, i.e. a dedicated column.

Another thought about the proposed icon–does it need to be an icon? What about small letters/numbers, i.e.
L3 indicated 3 links
M2 indicated 2 mirrors
Admittedly, I’m not certain how this would affect other languages/cultures/translations of Legend. So maybe two icons with number is the best way to go for ease of translation.