Repeating Events are pretty half-assed?

Jerud

I recently started using entirely “local” events instead of syncing to Gcal. Although I miss having a color-coded Calendar, this solved many of my frustrations and I’m actually getting reliable use out of Agenda Panes now.

Repeating events are really letting me down, though. It seems that ‘completing’ an item with a repeating date does nothing more than automatically reschedule the event. Nothing actually gets completed. That means I have no record of my past-completions of that item, and if it’s a parent I have to manually un-complete all the children before I begin the next instance of that work.

@LauraH or others who’ve been doing this longer may need to set me straight. But unless i’m just getting this totally wrong, this method of providing “repeating events” is total 🐄💩. It gives the appearance but there’s no substantive functionality. With the level of features that Legend has attained today – links, mirrors, global search, really super filters – I’m kind of appalled that this feature remains so superficially implemented.

It seems straightforward to make “completing” an item spawn a new, uncompleted copy with the new date. Just that one change alone would be a huge improvement!

Yeah, there are still issues to address – how to handle past instances when user edits the item, how to prevent them being individually moved away or other items inserted between them, etc. The instances need to be pulled together into some kind of container that’s not visible in the outline but still view-able to user and protected from inappropriate deletion…I won’t pretend to know if that’s hard to code but it seems like basically mirroring them all into a “hidden” parent would do the trick, then leverage the “tally box” (used for links and mirrors) to let the user access past instances (perhaps in a special popup Pane, zoomed to the otherwise-invisible container).

Anybody got a decent workaround for this?

LauraH

Jerud
Indeed, you are not wrong, and this has been a frustration of mine for a long time! There’s old Slack discussions of this problem too.
https://moodo.slack.com/archives/C99CWQ484/p1620169195411900

From that conversation linked above - this issue was actually enough of a problem that a few folks I introduced to Moo.do decided this was a “no go” for them being able to use the app.
For me - as a mostly at home mom - huge chunks of my day are repeating / routine things. It’s frustrating to not be able to see EVERYTHING I checked off for the day, especially when SO MANY of them are repeating. 🙁

So, indeed - there is no completion record of repeating items. And I do not have any work arounds.

But totally add me to the PLUS 100 who would like to see this! @Jorge has often requested this also.

webalstrom

I have found the lack of a history of completed recurring items a frustration, too. There is some satisfaction seeing your task crossed off, even if the next instance is added immediately!

Having moved from Dynalist, I think the way they handled this was quite nice. The default was when a repeating task was completed, a new instance was generated immediately below it. This was a separate instance, but an exact copy. I could then edit the new instance to add details or alter the task, but it would not effect any of the previously completed instances. I think this makes sense rather than having all old instances change. What you did has been done and you can’t go back and do something different in the past. But you can do something different in the future! There was also an option to update the due date in the existing item instead of creating a new item.

I think creating a new instance of the recurring task would be easier to manage for both the developer and user than creating a “mirror” or “tallybox” as Jerud suggests. But I would welcome any method of having a way to keep track of completed recurring tasks!

You can read more about it here (I hope it’s okay to paste a link to a competitor!): https://help.dynalist.io/article/133-recurring-dates

Jorge

Jerud I recently started using entirely “local” events instead of syncing to Gcal. Although I miss having a color-coded Calendar,

I have created a separate feature request for this sort of thing. https://forum.legendapp.com/d/609-color-coding-the-calendar-items

webalstrom

Jorge Well, that was confusing! Before I read your post that the threads had been merged, I thought I was in a time warp. But makes sense to keep these things together.

A question about voting on things. I have clicked the “thumbs up” on Jerud’s original post in this thread. I also clicked for LauraH’s original post in the merged thread. Just to be safe, I clicked for Jorge’s post about merging and upvoting. What is the proper way to upvote topics you think are important and want Jay to focus his attention on? Is it the original post even if the discussion later on brings out points you think need attention? Or should you vote for each of the posts? It would make more sense if the entire topic had just one place to vote for it instead of each post within the topic. I know this is how our forum platform works, but knowing where to vote would be helpful. In Jay’s intro for the forum, he just says vote, but not how or where!

Jerud

webalstrom The default was when a repeating task was completed, a new instance was generated immediately below it. This was a separate instance, but an exact copy. I could then edit the new instance to add details or alter the task, but it would not effect any of the previously completed instances.

Yes, this absolutely. Except in Legend the new one should go above. I also think the new one should be a duplicate of the original repeater, so it doesn’t reflect any unique edits or notes I’ve added to the just-completed instance. This is easy to say, but tricky when you get into the details. Such as: what if you want to actually edit the original so all future instances change? They need to all be kept together in some way that allows reasonable access and editing without being in the way or creating sloppy messes with the surrounding Outline.

webalstrom I think creating a new instance of the recurring task would be easier to manage for both the developer and user than creating a “mirror” or “tallybox”

I was just mentioning ways that the existing structures/features/UI elements might be leveraged to make this easier to build without adding clutter to the UI. Maybe not good ideas but there seems like plenty of opportunities and we (community) could probably sort something out if Jay took on the effort.

webalstrom

Jerud Yes, this absolutely. Except in Legend the new one should go above. I also think the new one should be a duplicate of the original repeater, so it doesn’t reflect any unique edits or notes I’ve added to the just-completed instance. This is easy to say, but tricky when you get into the details. Such as: what if you want to actually edit the original so all future instances change? They need to all be kept together in some way that allows reasonable access and editing without being in the way or creating sloppy messes with the surrounding Outline.

I’m not opposed to any of those thing. Whether the new instance goes above/below, I’ll get used to either, especially since the completed instance will auto-disappear, at least if the is:complete filter is on. I was suggesting an exact copy of the most recently completed instance as probably the easiest way to code this and make it happen, but since I’m not a developer, maybe it doesn’t matter. It just sounds more complicated to have a “master” recurring task that generates all future ones. And as you mention, how would you change (or delete) the original if you needed to?

Perhaps it comes down to how we use our recurring tasks. For me, they are simple things like “Take recycling out to curb” or “Pay the bills”. If the task changes, it probably will change for all future instances, e.g. “Take recycling out to end of driveway”. If I need to make a one time change, I usually will just make a non-recurring task for that one time instance.

LauraH The other related “issue” here - is how are repeating items with CHILDREN handled.

This is something I would love to see in Legend! Dynalist didn’t handle repeating children very well, so I had to do some contortionist workarounds when there were multiple steps involved in a repeating task. It looks like Todoist has a lot of power there which would be great. But if that would delay just the (hopefully) simple addition of showing completed instances, then I’d vote to add that ASAP and wait on the repeating children.

Jorge

Jerud what if you want to actually edit the original so all future instances change? They need to all be kept together in some way that allows reasonable access and editing without being in the way or creating sloppy messes with the surrounding Outline.

Most organizers I’ve used manage the repeating series as based on the next active event, and not on the first ever executed event. Thus the completed events remain as history and become unrelated to the recurring series. If you want to change the recurring series you select the series which is pointing to the next due date and the completed ones remain untouched. That’s why I believe the series should be handled as an object itself, but as soon as you complete an event, a copy of the event with the current due date should be generated and marked as complete, and the series rescheduled to the next iteration.

LauraH

If I recall - from a previous conversation on this - Jay mentioned that he changed it to NOT create a new repeating task because he got complaints of folks not wanting to see ALL their repeating items in the completed lists. I would suggest though - that seeing many of the same completed item in your “view completed” lists is MUCH less of a “problem” than not seeing them at all!

One possible work around would be to add another view / filter option that was “hide all repeating items”. In fact, this type of filter has been suggested / requested in the past and I could see many uses for!! This would be handy both when viewing “completed” tasks, and also in more “normal” views if you want to hide the “routine” stuff and view only “one off” items.

The other related “issue” here - is how are repeating items with CHILDREN handled.
In my experience, Toodoist has the clearest and most helpful options around this. See their documentation here: https://www.toodledo.com/info/subtasks.php#slider-7

Jerud

LauraH because he got complaints of folks not wanting to see ALL their repeating items in the completed lists.

That’s an understandable way to handle the complaints short-term, but that was ages ago. Repeating events are surely more “core” to Legend than foofery like mirrors and links; I think they are way overdue to “grow up”.

LauraH One possible work around would be to add another view / filter option that was “hide all repeating items”.

We already have half of that built with the essentially-forgotten ARCHIVE feature! Jay has admitted it’s a kind of orphaned function because it’s hard to see a clear use case. But this is a perfect one – and it wouldn’t likely cause any trouble for the few users who are actually using Archive already. Just add a user setting to auto-archive completed instances of repeating tasks: done! Bonus: you can’t reorder items in Archive Panes, so that prevents instances from getting jumbled up!

There’s still many details to sort out. For example, Archive panes don’t display non-archived items, so they can be pretty disorienting and hard to navigate (seems like a toggle in the Pane Options would solve that). And there’s coping with children, mirrors, links, all of it. But after seeing how well the Filters overhaul turned out I think this is something we can solve – and it will be a major improvement to the app.

Jorge

LauraH One possible work around would be to add another view / filter option that was “hide all repeating items”. In fact, this type of filter has been suggested / requested in the past and I could see many uses for!!

@LauraH This filter is already implemented by Jay. The syntax is: date:repeating in the advanced filters.
I think there should be an icon for this in the simple filter menu as well.

I totally agree with @LauraH regarding people that don’t want to see the history of the completed individual repeating items. They can currently filter them out if they don’t want to see them. However, there is another important reason why they should be there. You might want to add specific notes to each completed instance that do not apply to the repeating pattern. Especially if you are trying to use Legend for Journaling needs.

Jorge

LauraH The other related “issue” here - is how are repeating items with CHILDREN handled.
In my experience, Toodoist has the clearest and most helpful options around this. See their documentation here: https://www.toodledo.com/info/subtasks.php#slider-7

I agree that this behavior is the most general one and should be the preferred one as it covers all the cases I can think of and that people have expressed before.

Having said that, just as the others, I think that the first thing to imlement soon should be the saving of the completed items, and then later Jay can deal with the children.

Jerud

Above, below…I wouldn’t get bent about one or the other, just pointing out that above would be consistent with how Legend adds New Items.

webalstrom Perhaps it comes down to how we use our recurring tasks.

Well yeah. New instances always copying a master may be good for reinforcing a habit/routine, or for folks who want a ‘blank slate’ in the Notes to record details for each occurrence. But copying forward the last instance (including Notes) could be ideal for users dealing with a volatile or evolving situation. Both of those sound like me – at different times! But either one is workable, even if it’s not “ideal” for what you want. Just a question of picking one and moving ahead.

Every time I think I’ve heard it all, someone posts up their use case on the forum and it’s totally out of left field (from my perspective). The “solution” here is probably gonna be 80% good for everybody but 100% for nobody. That’s still better than today, which is like 25%!

webalstrom But if that would delay just the (hopefully) simple addition of showing completed instances, then I’d vote to add that ASAP and wait on the repeating children.

I agree with this sentiment – even a simple improvement now is better than waiting longer for the whole package. But I rather suspect it’s the other way around – how to deal with children is likely holding up the saving of separate instances.

I wish some of y’all would up-vote this so maybe Jay can notice it😇

LauraH

Currently - if you complete a repeating item, the item schedules itself for the next instance; but there is no record of previous instances. No record of when the tasks were completed.
I would really appreciate having that record.

To have a “habit tracker”, a record of how often I’ve completed (or missed) the various habits / babysteps / routines I’m working toward.
As a “Go Me” list. Most days I’m an at home mom; and big chunks of my work involve repeating/recurring chores. I would really like to look back on my “Completed” list for the day and see the chores included! A big help on days when I mentally feel like the day was a “waste” to be able to see a list of things I did accomplish.

webalstrom

I agree with LauraH on this. It would be nice to have a record of what has been done for repeating tasks. Sometimes it’s just a matter of “did I really do that this week/month/year?” Having the crossed-off completed task to confirm this would be helpful. The completed copy should have a created (and modified) date of when it was completed while the new instance, with the updated due date, carries the original created date but indicates it was modified when it was completed (just like it does currently).

LauraH

@webalstrom - To help track of the relative desire for various feature requests; could you please up vote this (the arrow button) to indicate your desire for this feature also? That helps Jay to have a way to see what feature requests are most desired.

webalstrom

@LauraH Just added my vote. Thanks for the reminder to do this!

Jorge

I think we were discussing this on a separate thread. @LauraH I merged your request with @Jerud ’s thread to try to give it more relevancy. @webalstrom maybe you could upvote the merged thread as well?

LauraH

webalstrom
The only votes that are visible on the “Main” forum page are those applied to the FIRST post in the chain. You can also upvote it on that main page without opening the thread.
I suspect that is the most helpful place to upvote?

Jorge

webalstrom Personally I always got confused about that so what I do is just upvote in the main list of topics. The blue arrow indicates you upvoted something, if it is grey it means you haven’t upvoted that item.

webalstrom

LauraH, this is helpful to know! I did upvote on the first post of this topic (as well as others I think need attention), so I did it in the right place.